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Author Topic: ~Brainstorming Changes to Mercenaries~  (Read 2837 times)
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BlAcKJaCk19
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« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2015, 06:46:13 AM »

I think all of you raised valid points, I liked the discussion.

Only thing I would like to add is, yeah it probably makes sense that everything eventually evens out around the true score you desire/deserve (based on a very large large large sample size). The sample size itself is what differs among players and their skill set. It may take people 5000 runs to get  the score they want, and might take  1000 for others. I think it is better to base probabilities on solo rather than duo, duo is trickier as more variables factor in that eventually leads to a the score desired. For that reason and for the sake of simplicity it is better to argue from a solo perspective. AI is also affected by the system we play on, different conditions may affect the extra sample size required for the score.

As far as luck is concerned, it is there and we all know this; and yes, luck is a variable that ultimately affects scores. But when it is used as an excuse 24/7 then the player is obviously not there yet.

Anyway, just wanted to post my POV, hopefully not derailing from the discussion lol
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Synyster
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« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2015, 08:48:37 AM »

you guys are really going all out to explain this games luck factor. the luck in this game is mostly situational so stop trying to explain with statistics and probability, because it's honestly not that deep lol. RNG=random=undefined=good/bad luck. luck is very prevalent in this game, just accept it.
"Luck" is just the unlikely thing happening. Damaja I'm sorry to say that bad luck is not the reason you dont have 110000k. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY that Ae and maxmartin have it 15 times or more and you can't get it once because of "bad luck". We are all playing the same version of the game so the choices you make, OVER TIME, determine your skill. In individual games, sure, there are lots of times where you make the right decision and get screwed but over such a large sample size, making the right decisions will ALWAYS get you the score you deserve.

Its frustrating you can't look at the game this way because every time you say " I swear I have the worst luck in this game" it makes zero sense.

Might as well blame god for not getting scores xD

Additional Post Merged: September 19, 2015, 08:53:43 AM
Yes blackjack, some people get scores quicker because they have made choices that give them a higher percent to get that score. My probability of getting 1100k is probably 1 in 1000 where max martin's is probably 1 in 100. He definitely has a higher probability of getting the WR, he just hasn't hit that roll yet and I have. He is playing with a dice that has less sides than mine, but I hit my role first. You could say that I got "lucky" but luck is a construct of the human mind, it does not exist. Probability does.

Additional Post Merged: September 19, 2015, 09:01:08 AM
someone has a 4 sided dice and someone else has a 6 sided dice and both are to roll until they get a 1. The 4 sided dice obviously has a greater chance of getting it firsr, but let's say it took the 4 sided dice 5 rolls to get it and the 6 sided dice only 1 roll. Now, you could say that person got lucky but now run the experiment 1000 times and you will see the 4 sided dice hit their roll 1 in 4 times, and the 6 sided dice hit theirs 1 in 6 times. Apply this to mercenaries and the likelyhood each seperate player will get a score. Maxmartin has the 4 sided dice and I have the 6. Why is that? Because max martin consistently makes better choices in game. Its not luck he keeps getting the 1100k time and time again and I've got it twice ever.

Additional Post Merged: September 19, 2015, 09:09:45 AM
I'm not disagreeing that what you call "luck" is in this game. My argument is: if you have the skill to get a certain score, you WILL get it eventually.you may have bad luck certain games, but it is set in the game that the bad luck you experience in those games MUST occur. It may be unlikely for something to happen, but it MUST occur. At the same time people may have really lucky games... OR the probabilities are working out in your favour, which also MUST happen. The tricky part about mercs is that all the probabilities could work out in a run until the last 10 kills, which is frustrating but if you are making the correct choices, you WILL get a score. Its not a coincidence Ae, martin, Tommi and basti consistently get world recordsand damaja has had 1 ever (no offense damaja). Would you go out on a limb and say your 1128k on prison was lucky?? Suddenly, you do not have the worst luck in the game haha or would you dare to say you are the best prison player?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 09:16:12 AM by Synyster » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2015, 03:43:25 PM »

i honestly think placebo plays a part in this game. i realized that whenever i was in a positive mindset the runs would go better and scores were more frequent. this whole past year, i've played just to get 1100 and never got it because i wasn't having fun playing the game. and i think that is what affected the choices i made because my judgment was clouded.

also, i can't believe i forget to mention the CONNECTION. lololol wow what a big difference the connection makes. Syn, can you honestly agree with me that me and you would have gotten that 1100 a dozen times if our connection was working the way it should on a regular basis? think about it, what has our mercs experiences been 9/10 times this past year? lag, lag, more lag. i'm sorry to make excuses, but speaking on our behalf only, that was the biggest factor over anything else.
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« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2015, 04:49:13 PM »

Ya my connection is a bitch. I'm just trying to make you realize that yes the game is full of RNG but you as a player can minimize it by the choices you make, your skill. We are all playing the same game, no one has worse luck than someone else, that makes no sense.

As for getting mad and playing "on tilt" that also has huge effects on gameplay
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SixPockets392
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« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2015, 08:02:55 PM »

i think some people have a different definition of luck.

now getting back to the original topic, but also related to the current discussion, i think the knife should have a higher chance to stun on any given body part. say the current chance to leg stun with a gun is 30% (i have no idea what it is really) the knife would have a 45% chance.

this would help non-weskers who can't just dash if they don't get a stun.

as the knife is now, i think capcom just designed it to be a box opener because it does so little damage that there's no point in using it for that. and i doubt they were thinking of using it to get stuns in mercs when majini don't have enough health left to shoot them.

and i don't think it should act like the stun rod, just giving +5 sec for killing with it.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 10:26:57 PM by SixPockets392 » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2015, 08:02:57 PM »

i think some people have a different definition of luck.

now getting back to the original topic, but also related to the current discussion, i think the knife should have a higher chance to stun on any given body part. say the current chance to leg stun with a gun is 30% (i have no idea what it is really) the knife would have a 45% chance.

this would help non-weskers who can't just dash if they don't get a stun.

as the knife is now, i think capcom just designed it to be a box opener because it does so little damage that there's no point in using it for that. and i doubt they were thinking of using it to get stuns in mercs when majini don't have enough health left to shoot them.

and i don't think it should act like the stun rod, just giving +5 sec for killing with it.

I agree, but I would probably take it a couple of steps further and increase the stun rate done by all weapons. It would still rely on a random number, but there's really no way to fix that mechanic while keeping some balance at the same time.

I also disagree with Knife mechanic. (Being treated like a stun rod) - At least if it was given a +5 bonus on a kill, it would help nullify lost melee's for all the other characters. In my opinion, they need something to fall back on. The knife isn't fast enough to spam like in Mercenaries 3DS, and it hardly does any damage even if it was. The knife in this game is mainly used for stuns anyway, so at least if you didn't get one you would get some sort of reward for it. It wouldn't really become any more broken, or really anymore useful on a good run.
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SixPockets392
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« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2015, 08:33:16 PM »

current stun chance is fine imo.

but that'd make it too easy. it would be cool for village though i guess (knifing bui keechwa and kipepeopeopeoeoeopeoepeo)
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2015, 10:12:28 PM »

current stun chance is fine imo.

but that'd make it too easy. it would be cool for village though i guess (knifing bui keechwa and kipepeopeopeoeoeopeoepeo)

At the moment it would be pretty useless to force melee's with a knife with most characters. Sadly it would encourage players to experiment and find ways to melee cephalos and such with a knife as a fall back, but the best runs will usually not involve using the knife for a melee kill whatsoever.

If you gave everyone a Stun Rod however...that would probably ruin or change gameplay completely despite the balance it would give.
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SixPockets392
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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2015, 10:59:47 PM »

but the best runs will usually not involve using the knife for a melee kill whatsoever.

you can't know that
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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2015, 11:30:38 PM »

but the best runs will usually not involve using the knife for a melee kill whatsoever.

you can't know that

With Wesker or Chris STARS, I definitely know this to be true. Well set up dashes with Wesker or perfect stuns, or nitro will be those characters' best runs. You never even see anyone use a knife in a good run.

Other characters like Sheva and Jill would probably be affected by the change the most. Even then, I think it would only be treated as a fall back if things aren't going well.

current stun chance is fine imo.
I also degree with this in a lot of cases, but again it's based on chance and luck.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 05:16:19 AM by KotierWolf » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2015, 06:40:09 AM »

You never even see anyone use a knife in a good run.

Ever watched my runs? xD
Usually, I use knife at HEAD, because it has a higher chance to stun, trust me.
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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2015, 02:18:34 PM »

I played for years and countless runs ruined by leg stun nonsense, ammo problems. But I would never blame any of it for my failure to get great scores, because a shitload of players pissed all over my scores despite only using BSAA as a second or third choice character.

Skill gets good scores over time regardless of luck.

Fnarrr.
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Synyster
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« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2015, 02:47:57 PM »

I played for years and countless runs ruined by leg stun nonsense, ammo problems. But I would never blame any of it for my failure to get great scores, because a shitload of players pissed all over my scores despite only using BSAA as a second or third choice character.

Skill gets good scores over time regardless of luck.

Fnarrr.
+100000000
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« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2015, 03:22:41 PM »

You never even see anyone use a knife in a good run.

Ever watched my runs? xD
Usually, I use knife at HEAD, because it has a higher chance to stun, trust me.
Maybe on a few enemies, I've never seen a full video from you. But the stun chance is the same regardless of what weapon you use.

I played for years and countless runs ruined by leg stun nonsense, ammo problems. But I would never blame any of it for my failure to get great scores, because a shitload of players pissed all over my scores despite only using BSAA as a second or third choice character.

Skill gets good scores over time regardless of luck.

Fnarrr.
Luck and Skill work together well, but in this game you're always rolling a dice with chance no matter how you go about it; usually resulting in just increasing the amount of chances you have.
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Brawnysilverfox
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« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2015, 04:36:39 PM »

I had plenty of chances though and failed, yet other people could pick BSAA up and beat me with much less playtime with the character. You were one of those people lol. I could never blame it all on bad luck that's my point. I just didn't have the skill.
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